Known, Remembered, Chosen with Mark McIntosh

David: Good morning, Mark McIntosh. How are you today, buddy?

Mark: I'm doing great.

David: How about you? I am doing great. I've been, I've wanted to have you on the podcast for a long time, and, with your new book coming out, it seemed like a great time. So, what part of the world are you calling in from today?

Mark: I am in Lantana, Texas, which is a suburb of the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

David: Okay. That is excellent. And are you a native Texan?

Mark: No. I grew up in a small town, Paris, Illinois, which is

David: Okay...

Mark: the center of the universe near Terre Haute, Indiana, which is where... Do you know who played for- Larry Bird went to college. Ev- everybody knows Terre Haute for Larry Bird. So, yeah, we grew up, it's about three, three and a half hours south of Chicago. Small farming community of about 9,000 people, and, I actually met my wife in Paris, so.

David: Oh, you did?

Mark: Yeah. We, she's a few years younger than me in school. And, we always joke that we'll go to Paris on vacation or over the holidays- and then I have to explain it's Paris, Illinois, which isn't quite the same as-

David: It's probably as, it's probably as fancy as Paris, Texas, I suppose.

Mark: Well, Paris, Texas is a lot fancier-

David: Is

Mark: it?... and a lot more happening than Paris, Illinois, so.

David: But that-

Mark: Okay.

David: I will trust you.

Mark: Yeah. Great. So you're

David: not Go ahead.

Mark: great place to grow up, but you wouldn't necessarily seek it out to visit, but it was a wonderful place to grow up. Farming community, good people, good values, and,it was a lot of fun to grow up there.

David: Yeah. I grew up in, in Iowa, similar situation. So yeah, there's, you can kinda tell folks from the Midwest. There's just something about the, the Midwest vibe. So like me, you're not a native Texan, but we got here as quick as we could, right?

Mark: That's right. Yeah.

David: So how long have you been in Texas then?

Mark: Yeah. We came down in 2011. And

David: Okay...

Mark: yeah. at the time I was working for Crowe, a large CPA firm. And

David: Yeah...

Mark: I was doing business development for them and helping them grow their new office here, which was based in Irving, Texas. And

David: Okay...

Mark: I came down on a three-day business trip just to get to meet the partners and the team here in DFW. And on the second day of that three-day trip, it came upon me that I need to uproot the family and move to Texas. And it was the economy. It was the sunshine. It was the weather. You know, I obviously wanted to maintain, There, the, calling into DFW in Texas- I couldn't believe the number of CFOs and leaders that would talk to us. They'd be willing to take a meeting, and I was like, "I never wanna give up Texas as being my territory." And at the time, our oldest of three was going into the fifth grade, and I'd always wanted to get to a warmer climate, but I was like, "Eh- Yeah I don't wanna go to Florida. California's too expensive." And this gave me an excuse to move to Texas, and I figured if we didn't like it, we can always move back. But, I wanted to get in as my oldest was going into the fifth grade. I thought that was important. That if we were to make a move, I didn't wanna do it when she was a sophomore or junior in high school. And, I always joke, nobody's cried because of the move since we moved. There's been lots of tears, but not because we moved-... from Indianapolis, so. But,

David: Under- understood. Well, so yeah, I know Crowe. They actually acquired a CPA firm in Houston that I used to work for called Briggs and Veselka.

Mark: Oh,

David: yeah. It was after I had left. So, well, let's fast-forward to, the present day. So tell me a bit about RevGrow. How to get started. What is it? What does it do?

Mark: Yep. RevGrow, we help trusted advisors and professional service firms primarily become known, remembered, and chosen. And we do it primarily through a done-for-you, non-salesy LinkedIn playbook that it's not rocket science. Our clients just won't do it, and they won't do it consistently. And a lot of our clients, they're not quite big enough to have an in-house sales team or a marketing department. So we are an outsource solution that most of our clients are founders or C-level, and business development is part of their job. But-

David: Sure...

Mark: their time is much better spent on serving their clients working on more strategic matters. So they outsource the lead generation and the marketing to us, and we do it for them. You know, we can train people how to do it. They just won't do it consistently. So that's what we do. And, we have a playbook that, you know, it's customizable and tailored, but it's a non-salesy approach to get in front of the right people, whether those are prospects or referral partners, people in their professional ecosystem. So getting awareness in that circle, and then giving first, adding value, sharing content, starting a conversation which ultimately leads to a one-on-one call if there's some interest there. And so that's what we do for our clients. we post content- You know, stay top of mind. A lot of them have longer sales cycles. It's based on relationships. So occasionally we'll hit somebody at the right time, but it's more likely that, you know, there's a six to 36-month sales cycle if you will. And, you know, getting the appointment, the first conversation, you know, without pitching or connecting and pitching, we call it pitch slapping, which maybe you've seen on LinkedIn a few times. it just doesn't work, so we use a non-salesy give first type of approach that really resonates with our trusted advisor type of clients.

David: Yeah, and I can... This would be a good time for me to disclose that I have been a client of RevGrow for some time, a few years.

Mark: Yeah.

David: And my wife, I think even longer than that. And I can confirm, you know, for a professional services firm, you know, a small to medium sized professional service firm, your process absolutely works. And, it's amazing what you've done to my LinkedIn presence. And,so yeah, so just a big thank you to you and the whole team, and all the great work you guys have done. We appreciate it.

Mark: Well, and likewise. You and Christine are amazing, so.

David: Well, we,

Mark: easy clients to work with.

David: Well, we... That's kind of you to say. We... My wife and I had a conversation about 10 years ago that, you know, we said everyone wants, you know, mostly A and B clients. I mean, ideally all A clients. And so everybody gets that. And I said to Christine, I said, "Why don't we aspire to be A clients for all of our vendors?"

Mark: Yeah.

David: I said, "Because when you're an A client, you get better treatment than when you're a B or..." Because, you know, if you, if somebody comes back to the office and they have 10 messages, they're gonna prioritize them by their client ranking. And I said, "And life's just more fun when you, when everybody is a relationship, when your vendor is a relationship, not a cost to minimize." And, so yeah. So thank you for saying that. We aspire to be, A clients. and it's not that hard to be an A client. You know, you pay your bills. I mean, step one Step two, don't try to renegotiate every bill and try to discount it. And step three, be, like, easy to work with. That's about all it takes.

Mark: Love it. And I feel the same, David, but you're the only clients in 10 years that... A lot of them whip it out, but they haven't expressed that right up front- which you did. I was like, that's interesting that you aspire to be an A client, and that really resonated with me. And I tried to, I try to do the same. And, you know, my, my team is amazed. They're like, "Man, you pay your bills quickly." And as soon as I get an invoice, I pay it, and I think they really appreciate that. And then- like you said, just- Well, you have

David: accounting background-

Mark: yeah...

David: you know that whether you pay the bill the first day you get it or in 60 days, the bill still has to be paid. It's not like it, it makes any real difference in your cashflow whether you pay it right away or wait 60 days. And if it does make that big of a difference, then, you know, you may have an underlying business, problem if you can't pay your bills right away. So let's talk a bit more about just kind of the way that you guys work. I mean, so I know how you work.

Mark: Yeah.

David: And so let's just kind of talk about, like, just kind of the mechanics-

Mark: Yeah

David: of how you work. So, well, actually let me... Why don't I use myself as a test case? So I had a LinkedIn account that I had, like, 20 connections on, I think. I... The only time I used it was if I was looking up somebody for before a meeting to learn a little bit about their background, and, and that was how I used it. I knew that it would be beneficial if I posted. I knew it'd be beneficial if I sought connections. I knew there'd be a lot of benefit, but it was kind of overwhelming, and it was never, like, an urgent thing. So Christine, my wife, referred me to you, and so that's where I started. And if I look today, let me go pull up my LinkedIn. I'm not even sure. So I used this so little, I don't even know how many contacts I have. Let's see if it's under my network. So I've got 4,075 connections. And when I started with you all, I had, like, 20. And, I've actually received... I have clients who went to LinkedIn and searched for IC DISC. I've got clients from that. I've got, So anyway, so I showed up. I thought it was a good idea. I never used it, never had time, and then I met you all. So then what happened then? What were, what were the steps that got me from 20 connections to 4,075?

Mark: Great. I love that. Well, congrats on what we've been able to do together and, those are, for the most part, I'd say pretty quality connections. Either they're your ICP, your ideal customers, or your ideal referral partners, right? So, typically when we meet with somebody, and this would've been the case with you, we like to understand, you know, what makes your business unique. Who, who do you serve best? Where do you get your business from? If it's referrals, it's like, well, why not add fuel and accelerate that process? If it comes from trade shows or podcasting or doing workshops or seminars, it's like, well, if- Why not do, continue doing what's working? So this isn't meant to replace, it's meant to supplement what's already working well. So once we have a, a new client intake questionnaire that captures all the relevant info that allows us to go out, update your LinkedIn profile, making sure that it less of a resume and more of a client-centric, client-facing resource. Making sure it's compelling and, you know the value's clear and immediate, and you're kinda speaking their language. So with the understanding of your business, who you serve, what makes you different, we update your LinkedIn profile. We update your company page. Or a lot of cases, we're creating the company page. and then what we do is we go out and we, using Sales Navigator, we'll build multiple searches that are highly targeted to find not only people in your existing network that could either be your ideal customer profile or your ideal referral partner, and then we use those searches in Sales Navigator to re-engage with your first-degree connections. Maybe you connected with them, but you never had a conversation, or maybe you connected with them when they had a previous job, and it's really good to re-engage with those folks. And it's an easy meeting or conversation to get started. And then we use a similar search to go out and find second-degree people that you would like to connect with. And then the next component is messaging. So if I'm reaching out to people I either know or don't know from Adam, they don't know me, the tone and tenor of the message is different. So we want, we wanna make sure that, one, we capture your voice in a authentic way. We don't pitch, slap, or connect and pitch. we want it to be give first, conversational in nature, not a lick of sales or selling.

David: Yeah.

Mark: Because that, it's just a way to help you stand out from the crowd. People these days, when you accept their invite, they almost expect or anticipate the pitch is coming. So-

David: Yeah...

Mark: we try, we don't do that because that's a way to help our clients stand out from the crowd. You know, your audience is getting lambasted on every platform, every... They're just getting sales pitches all day long. So how do you create a profile and a message where they're one of 20 they get, your message is one of 20, and they say, "You know what? I'll reply to this one. In fact, I'd like to meet David. I love what he's doing. I see we have mutual connections. He's also in Houston. You know, he's speaking my language, and he didn't try and pitch me." So, and they make this decision in about 20 seconds. So all this is going through their mind, and the whole goal is to stand out from the crowd and be one of the 20 where they say, "You know what? I'm gonna pause, and I'll either read it or reply. Check out his profile. If it's relevant, great. If it's not relevant, that's fine, too." And then so messaging is a key part of a pillar that we do for our clients. And then the next component is content. What-

David: Yeah...

Mark: what sort of content is relevant to your audience? You know, it's timely, it's relevant, it's useful, it's accurate. And what do they care about, and is it somewhat either directly or complementary to what your solution is? So we don't like the content to be all about why you're amazing and IC DISC and things like that. We want a mix of content, and that could be video, it could be podcast- it could be articles. It could be, LinkedIn carousels, which are PDF slideshows. It can be events that you attend, speaking engagements. So a wide variety of content. And then what we do is each and every day we'll connect with new and re-engage with existing contacts that you review and approve. And- You know, try to start the conversation, and then ultimately take it offline and have a conversation. And, so that's- And it

David: works.

Mark: Yeah. And it works. Yeah. that's part of the process, and then, you know, getting feedback from you. You know, how was that appointment with Bill or- how'd that meeting go with Julie? And then figuring out, was it an A pro- call? We categorize it as A, B, or C. And if it's an A, you know, there's an obviously either a near term opportunity or some potential for either referrals or doing business together. A B might be, eh, it wasn't bad. There may be something there in the future. And a C, which doesn't happen a lot, but it's like, we met, you know, I found out they're actually looking for a job, or they're trying to pitch me on their ser- So sometimes you get a C in there, because what they represent on their LinkedIn profile might not be reality. And then we, we, beyond that we do, we figure out how the meeting went, score the meeting, and then figure out what makes sense to stay in touch with this person. And maybe it's, you know, you email them or call them once a quarter. You know, if there's a near term opportunity maybe a, your next step will be invite them to lunch or-

David: share a case study or something like that. So we, this is what we facilitate and do for our clients. And-

Mark: they can certainly do it, they're just busy.

David: You're right. And you have a system, you have a proven system and it works. And, so I was going... So do you find that it's better, you know, that your ideal person, professional services, B2B, and is it, I'm assuming that it helps if the lifetime value of a client is relatively high? You know, like say 20,000 blows up, 10,000. exactly. Yeah,

Mark: exactly. It's

David: not, you know, if you're just, if you're trying to s- if you're selling widgets that you sell for $2, you make 30 cents, it's not really a good strategy, is it?

Mark: Yeah. great point. Most of our clients, the lifetime value of a new client for them would be, like, 25 grand up to a million or so.

David: Yeah.

Mark: And so- And

David: you don't need a lot of them, and that's the point. Yeah.

Mark: Yeah, a lot

David: of our. So our ROI with you all has been extraordinary. I mean, our, ROI is probably 10X what we've spent-

Mark: Excellent.

David: on you. Awesome. And because we have a recurring revenue model, if I stopped using you all, my ROI would just keep getting higher and higher, 'cause the denominator would go. Like, there'd be no incremental cost, but there's still residual value. I was gonna ask you about, case studies, and I realized I actually had a perfect case study myself that if you like, I can just, I can just share. So I, through you all, I came across an industry unintentionally that was tangential to another industry that a lot of our clients are in. They became a client, and they said, "Hey, there's an annual conference you should go to. And, you know, go there and we'll make some introductions for you." So I went, I joined the organization and became a member. It was, you know, $500 or something. And then there were like, they gave me a membership list. There were like 600 people in there. And your person, Sarah, went through and like 150 or 200 of them were on LinkedIn. And her outreach was so simple, "Hey, I see we're both members of the same organization. I thought it'd make sense to connect." And I think she said it might have been like a record connection acceptance. Like, I think half the people accepted the connection request, or maybe 70%. It was some high number.

Mark: Awesome.

David: Then as the conference grew closer, I had the email list of all the attendees, and we sent out some emails, like just mass emails, to try to schedule a time to meet. And we had extraordinarily high opt-out rates, like we'd never seen before. And we had zero luck. So I'm like, "Well, Sarah, why don't you see what you can do?" And it was so funny, it was the exact opposite. So, you know, there- let's say there were 150 of the 600 people that are on LinkedIn. Let's say it was 200. Yeah. She reached out to all 200. 100 of them accepted the connection request, then she reached out to those 100 to try to schedule meetings, and I had to stop her because, like- when she got through the first- 50 people, 20 of them I had meetings set up for, and I didn't have time for any more meetings. And it was just- extraordinary how- The trust differential. When I sent the email, it was cold- but it was Link- you know, LinkedIn, and I had the connection. We were both members of the same organization. it was just by itself, it was a warm introduction by using the organization, not another individual. So have you experienced that with other-

Mark: example.

David: people, too?

Mark: Oh, yeah. That is, yeah, the fundamental bo- which is obvious, is if there's a connection and the recipient can connect the dots in their eyes, why would I wanna connect with David? And because there was a connection, and based on your expertise and your profile, your background, and the message, it was logical. So that connecting the dots, whether they're in the s- a similar space or- similar area, or you both went to school together, you're part of this group- or you're working with complementary type, you know, the same types of clients, you know, all of that, plays into that connection rate conversion plus the meeting conversion. And so the targeting, who we're targeting, what we say, and how we position you, when those three things align and then on top of that they connect the dots, it's really efficient. And, it,

David: it

Mark: sure is so to do all of that and make it work, that's kind of the goal of what we do for our clients. And t- you're right, the reply rate on LinkedIn or the connection rate, it's not 100%, but it's much higher than cold email.

David: Yeah, for sure. So talk to me a bit about what you guys do that maybe people wouldn't expect, but what you do with warm introductions.

Mark: I'm glad you brought that up, David. We have an approach and a process to facilitate warm introductions, and let me explain that. So if somebody introduces you to somebody that knows, likes, and trusts them, the chances of them agreeing to have a meeting is, like, 95%. And so what we've done is we've created a process that says, all right, who in my network would be interested in meeting with David, and vice versa, who would y- Who in your netw- or who are you looking to get in front of that I'm connected with? Or another person in your network is connected with? We can run- reports, figure out who your second degree, their first degree is- and facilitate warm intros at scale for our clients. And it's not, like a sales pitch, like, "Oh, I thought you'd be interested in Dave's, IC DISC program." It's more, it's going back to that connecting the dots and being- respectful in how we do that intro and saying, you know, "Hey, Bill, it's been a while since we connected. Hope you're doing well. I'd like to introduce David Spray. This is why I'm making the introduction." More or less, this is what's in it for you, and good guys should know good guys type of approach. You know, take it from here. And, as long as we're targeting the right people and who we're introducing is legitimate, like you, and they're able to connect the dots, it's- a really high conversion rate. And we, what we found is it, you know, referrals are great, you know, but they're unpredictable. There's often- not enough of them. And it's like, what can we do to be a little bit more proactive and intentional- instead of just waiting for referrals to show up, why don't we- why don't we proactively initiate some conversations? Because the people we're introducing, they may not have One, they don't know who you are. They might may not even be aware of your solution. And it's like, why not be proactive and be more intentional? So this warm introduction approach works really well, and it's just something that our- clients, they don't do it intentionally. They get busy and- they get all their business through referrals, but most of them don't have the time or the energy to do, you know, these introductions, and there's a lot of work that goes into that. And so we take that off our client's plate, and it's one of those low lift, high impact strategies that works really well on LinkedIn.

David: Okay. No, that is great. Have you, I mean, you're such, you and your firm are such experts on LinkedIn and how you go about things. Have you thought about writing a book sharing some of your secrets?

Mark: Yeah. Yeah. We worked with Stuart Bell, or I did, over at- 90 Minute Books. And- let me grab my book here. I, S- this is the first book I did- Attracting High-Value Clients and Fill Your Sales Pipeline With Quality Prospects. And it basically lays out our 12 step, a chapter for each step of how we do this- for our clients. Okay. So it's a very tactical, you know, pick it up and you can implement this. And, so that's the first book I did. The second book, which is about 95% of the way done, I'm also working with Stuart, and it's called Known, Remembered, and Chosen. And-

David: Okay.

Mark: it's really geared towards those trusted advisors who they grow through recognition, not promotion. And- it's all about how do they become known? How do they stay remembered? And then how do they naturally be chosen or referred to? Okay. So that book should be done in about a week and a half, two weeks. And-

David: Okay.

Mark: it goes a little bit deeper. It's about twice the size of the first book, but some real practical, strategies and tips for those trusted advisor, professional service folks that, you know, they're pretty good at part of that, you know, the knowing piece. You know, the, a lot of them can be known, they can do good work, but that doesn't necessarily mean that when the time is right, the referral partner, the client will think of them, remember them- if you will, and then call them. So this is a little bit more of a, a full sales cycle methodology- to help them

David: know- And it sounds like, yeah, and it sounds like even if they never hire you, that it- gives them the playbook to do it themselves.

Mark: Oh, 100%. Yep.

David: Okay.

Mark: Absolutely.

David: Okay. what do you enjoy most about your role these days in the company? What gives you the greatest satisfaction?

Mark: I love the variety of clients that we work with. Okay. the... So a lot of them are within that B2B professional service space. But, you know, we work with tax experts, financial planning expert, accounting experts, consulting experts, thought leader, really sharp, impressive people like you and Christine. And, so ju- just to work with the high quality of clients that we work with i- is really amazing. Okay... the team, you had mentioned Sarah. yeah, the team that I have is amazing. they've all been with me for five-plus years now. Okay. They're LinkedIn experts. we've really got to grow the firm together, and I've seen them evolve and mature and just get really good at what they're doing. So the team's amazing. Hasn't always been that way. but the last five years has been really good. I've enjoyed that aspect. I love meeting new people, and-... kinda helping them see a brighter future, if you will. And- a lot of them, they got to where they're at through referrals and word of mouth and, you know, maybe they're hitting, like, 60 to 70% of their revenue goal, and they're- they're kinda stumped. And a lot of- them, you know, either they're feeling a little pain, or maybe it's just aspirational. But they-... they need to figure out a way to close that delta between where they're at currently and where they wanna be. And so being able to help them, it's, with what we do, it's like who doesn't want more leads and more quality conversations? So it's a really fun thing to help explore with prospects and clients. And- a lot of what we do, you know, it's like as I explain the opportunity and the potential, and a lot of them have all the gold they would ever need in their existing networks. You know, a lot of them-... come with 5,000 or 6,000 connections. But they just haven't had the time or been disciplined enough to stay in front-... of those people. And,

David: Okay.

Mark: you know, it's almost impossible to do that. So when we, when I explore that with new prospects and clients, it's fun to see them it's almost like the pressure of how can I get from A to B, it kind of goes way down. And so to see that- that hope of a brighter future through our solution is a really fun aspect of the job.

David: Yeah. we work-

Mark: I can tell... we work... Yeah, we work with clients all over the nation. you know, even some in Canada. had one in Europe. And it's fun to meet people, different backgrounds- different. So I like that. And then, you know, having your own business and being virtual, there, there's some flexibility that comes along with that. And,

David: Okay.

Mark: I'd be lying if I, you know, didn't say that I enjoy that flexibility of being able to- work when and how and with whom we want to. And it's kind of the ultimate freedom, if you will.

David: Yeah.

Mark: And it's not perfect- Well, that would... but I

David: No, I understand. I understand. Well, as we're rounding the home stretch, I can't believe how quickly the time has gone by. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you wish I had?

Mark: That's a great question. well, I would- I wanted to offer, you know, if anybody wants to talk strategy, I- I do an hour free strategy call-

David: Oh, okay...

Mark: that, you know, I'd- I'd be happy to, you know, talk with any of your audience, you know, understand what they're trying to do. And usually in that one hour, I can share four or five things that can move the needle for them. And-

David: Okay...

Mark: regardless of whether we work together, you know, it's, I- I try to add a ton of value during those strategy sessions. And then they- they're welcome to implement those ideas or they can engage us and we can help them implement it. So I wanted to- make sure to offer that And somebody

David: Yeah. No, thank you.

Mark: Yeah.

David: And they can just reach out to you on LinkedIn, I assume.

Mark: yeah. Or- LinkedIn's good or my email's real simple. It's Mark, M-A-R-K-... @revgrow, R-E-V-G-R-O-W.com.

David: Okay.

Mark: or they can call me. 972-998-5132. And- I'm happy to set up a time and help them, you know, figure out a way they can grow their business over the next quarter or two.

David: Yeah. No, and you're great about that. I know my wife has introduced people to you, and I've also, not as many as her. And that's always been the feedback we get is whether they choose to engage with you or not, the hour they spent with you is valuable. So yeah, thank you for that. Well, I have just two fun questions before to wrap up with. What- if you could go back in time and give advice to your 25-year-old self, like with the benefit of hindsight, what advice might you give?

Mark: One question. 25 years old, Surround yourself with great people, mentors, join groups. You know, we're the average of the five people we hang with. And just being real disciplined with who you choose to spend your time with- and the circles you run with. I, you know, I was fortunate where early on in my career I had some excellent mentors that-

David: Okay

Mark: really changed the trajectory of, you know, kind of the way I saw life. And, I, I was exposed to some really impressive high-growth entrepreneurs. So-

David: Okay...

Mark: I knew that's what I wanted to do someday. And-

David: Okay...

Mark: so at 25, just, you know, I was an employee at that time and, you know-

David: thankfully, you know, I had some really good mentors and surrounded myself with some really good people that really influenced the trajectory of my life. So that's, That's great. That's great advice for anyone is to not, is to really be disciplined on the people in your life. You make sure they're the people who have congruent values with you and, so that's great advice. So the last one is even more fun. Just a simple question, and just give me your immediate reaction. Tex-Mex or barbecue?

Mark: That's easy. Tex-Mex.

David: Okay.

Mark: I literally, I c- I could eat Tex-Mex every single day. And, in fact, up until about three years ago, it was like Tex-Mex, barbecue and pizza, and then I, you know, I was hanging out with guys like you who are i- in shape, and it's like, something has to change here. And, but yeah, Tex-Mex all day long.

David: Okay. Well, I was, I ask that question, I ask that question to everybody on the podcast, and one of them t- mentioned a Mexican restaurant that has brisket, like tacos or brisket enchiladas. and they're like, "You don't have to choose. You get both of them at the same time."

Mark: Oh, there you go. Yeah, I love the brisket. But yeah, and Tex-Mex is, you know, you can still get good Tex-Mex for 20 bucks, you know? Yeah. So.

David: That is true. Well, Mark, I really appreciate you, taking time to come on the podcast. And again, I really appreciate- Thank

Mark: you... you and

David: your team and all they've done

Mark: Oh, likewise, Dave with your clients... and it, I enjoyed our time together, and thanks for all that you and Christine do. Appreciate it. Yeah.